Lucille Ball: The First Lady of Comedy

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Jimmy Todd

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The four leads on ILL had perfect chemistry. William.and Vivian were a huge part of making the show a classic. Desi wanted them, but Lucy didn't at first, which shows how important Desi's instincts were to the show.
In all the interviews I've seen with Lucy(Dick Cavett, Johnny Carson, Merv Griffin, Joan Rivers ) and they're talking about her career and how great it was, I've never heard anyone bring up episodes of TLD or HL. It's always ILL highlights they use as examples.
 
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Toni

Toni

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Thanks a lot for all the Lucy-info that you have given here. I´m not a fan but I certainly don´t discard to get into her movie career more deeply. I can remember her especially in "Room Service" (it was her, wasn´t she?) since I´m a big fan of the Marx Bros. I also watched her in a few other movies in supporting roles. What I see in the clips of her shows doesn´t appeal to me because that kind of crazy actresses playing clowns has been everywhere including Spain. It´s not subtlety what I get watching those bits, and the same thing happens to me when I watch Carol Burnett. But I do have this curiosity and will try to get some other films of her.
 
Seaviewer

Seaviewer

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Toni said:
. I can remember her especially in "Room Service" (it was her, wasn´t she?) since I´m a big fan of the Marx Bros.
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Yes, that was her. Coincidentally, I'm currently reading a book on Groucho called "Hello I Must Be Going" which mentions her, although is somewhat contradictory about whether he recognised her talent. When asked he says no, but later the book says that he recognised it early. Just not that early, I suppose.
 
Crimson

Crimson

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I've seen Vivian Vance in a few non-ILL projects and, to be honest, I wasn't too impressed. Pre-ILL, she had a small role in a Claudette Colbert thriller, THE SECRET FURY (1950). Based on that, I think she was probably a good character actress at the time. The problem with all of her post-ILL work that I've seen is that Vivian seemed to resent her associated with frumpy Ethel so much the she refrained from creating characters. There's a detached haughtiness in all of her post-Ethel work, including her role on TLS. All of her subsequent acting was basically "not Ethel".
 
Snarky Oracle!

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Crimson

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As much as Lucille clashed with guest stars on her show, I've never heard a peep about problems with Shelley Winters. Surprising since Shelley was a Method actor; I can't imagine Lucille was very tolerant of Method self-indulgence. I suppose Shelley's innate professionalism superseded her acting techniques.

Shelley was a good sport but -- like Mama Cass -- 70s TV reduced her to fat joke punchlines.
 
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Snarky Oracle!

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Crimson said:
Shelley was a good sport but -- like Mama Cass -- 70s TV reduced her to fat joke punchlines.
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And Shelley Winters really did choke on a ham sandwich. Several times.

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ClassyCo

ClassyCo

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I gave up on my episode-by-episode I LOVE LUCY binge, but I've decided to take advantage of the "shuffle" feature Paramount+ has now by watching random episodes of the show for a nice change of pace.

Over the past couple of days, I've managed to get in three episodes -- not too many as of yet, but I've enjoyed all three of them.

"Fan Magazine Interview" (S3:E17)
"The Star Upstairs" (S4:E25)
"Lucy Cries Wolf" (S4:E3)

Each of these episodes were very funny, with "The Star Upstairs" being the most surprising for me. I always remember kinda-sorta disliking this episode, but this go-round I found myself laughing several different times. Bobby the bellboy during the Hollywood episodes (guest star Bob Jellison) is easily one of the funniest side characters on the show. Unfortunately, movie star Cornel Wilde (guest starring as himself) isn't given much to do, which I guess is this episode's primary drawback. Wilde's just... there. He's not funny, he's not bad. He's just... there.

"Fan Magazine Interview" might be my next favorite of the trio, with Lucy and Ricky putting on their best act of wedded bliss so journalist Eleanor Harris (guest star Joan Banks) can write a lovey-dovey article about how happily married the Ricardos are. "Lucy Cries Wolf" is a very standard, albeit good, I LOVE LUCY episode where Lucy tries to prove Ricky's love for her by faking a break-in, only to become an actual victim at the end of the episode when nobody believes her anymore. It was good, but just run-of-the-mill I LOVE LUCY fare, so not particularly a standout.
 
Ked

Ked

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ClassyCo said:
"Lucy Cries Wolf" is a very standard, albeit good, I LOVE LUCY episode where Lucy tries to prove Ricky's love for her by faking a break-in, only to become an actual victim at the end of the episode when nobody believes her anymore. It was good, but just run-of-the-mill I LOVE LUCY fare, so not particularly a standout.
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That episode was one of the first episodes I saw on "Nick at Nite" as a kid in the early-to-mid 90s. I thought it was the funniest thing ever. :lol:

Fun fact: the very first I LOVE LUCY episode I ever saw was the *last* episode: "Lucy Dedicates a Statue." Weirdly, from my first impression of that show, it felt like Lucy was the "straight-man" while Ethel was the funny/goofy one; I just remember Ethel making fantastical statements with Lucy giving an exasperated, "Oh Ethel!"

Of course, I still remembered that Lucy would disguise herself as the titular statue. :lol:


Crimson said:
Vivian seemed to resent her associated with frumpy Ethel
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It's a bit weird, because while Ethel did dress on the frumpy side for the first couple of seasons, she later wore much more flattering and glamorous clothing.

Her best outfit:
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Crimson

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Ked said:
It's a bit weird, because while Ethel did dress on the frumpy side for the first couple of seasons, she later wore much more flattering and glamorous clothing.
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It all came back to Lucille. Lucy had expected an older, frumpy character actress to be cast as Ethel. Her choices had been Bea Benedarat, Mary Wickes or Barbara Pepper, each of whom declined or was declined for the role. Vivian was cast by Desi and Jess Oppenheimer without Lucille's involvement. When Lucille first met Viv, she complained that Viv was too young and pretty for the part. Viv was only about 2 years older than Lucille and, at the time, fairly svelte; in the earliest episodes Viv is notably thinner than Lucy who hadn't yet lost the pregnancy weight.

So considerable effort was put into making Lucy look 10 years younger and Viv 10 years older. In the 70s, Viv claimed she was contractually obligated to be 20 lbs. overweight to make Lucille look better, but that seemed to be a gag as no such contract existed. Viv's unhappiness with being thought of as dowdy Ethel and as Frawley's wife led to her gaining weight.

By the later seasons, I think Lucille just didn't care anymore and Viv was allowed to dress more favorably. IMO this started to undercut her performance. By the last season -- and certainly in the hour long shows -- Viv hardly seemed to be playing Ethel anymore but an early draft of Vivian Bagley from THE LUCY SHOW.
 
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