Is DYNASTY a "guilty pleasure"?

[ClassyCo]

Over on Reddit, there is a discussion started by this individual currently binging DYNASTY. They are currently in the third season, and they are asking if the show is going to pick up the pace and become the "guilty pleasure" they remember it being back in the '80s when they were in college.

Their discussion brought this question to my mind for our purposes here.... Do you consider DYNASTY a guilty pleasure?

For what it's worth, I think DYNASTY definitely wanted to be a guilty pleasure, but I believe it falls short of actually achieving that goal. I know there was a lot of publicity around the show during the '80s, but I think that came down to the casting and the fact that Joan Collins and Linda Evans were two of the leads. Oh, and the fashion helped that, too, I'm sure.

But I just don't see the show being a full-fledged guilty pleasure. For one, I'd argue that the majority of the show is a slog and can sometimes be a little boring to watch and get through. Nothing against the fans, of course, that's just my opinion.

What say you?

​

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

All dressed up and no place they'd go. Shame.

If those Redditers are expecting DYNASTY to get better after Season 3, they'll continue to be mightily disappointed. Of course, the older shows are not as fast-paced as more recent series, so that could be the problem they're seeing.

But the show the media covered with electric interest back in the '80s -- which is the way it's still talked about today -- had little to do with the program that aired every Wednesday night in the States... Everybody seemed to know what DYNASTY could and should be, except for the producers (who only knew how to cast it, dress it, and promote it, but little else).

The reality of most of DYNASTY was indeed a slog. Or, as our @Alexis once phrased, a show perpetually "suffocated." Almost frame-by-frame.

Myself, I never got over it. Like a death, really, after all the potential suggested by Seasons 1 & 2, and later recaptured in Season 9. But everything in between was an unfocused mess. (At least Season 5, its peak year ratings-wise, was splashy if stupid beyond redemption).

With Season 3, the S.A.D. emerged, Ed Ledding had been fired (I'm convinced set up), craven Eileen Pollock arose as the de facto show-runner, and DYNASTY's karma then changed; yes, the ratings weren't damaged for a couple of more years -- the Q-ratings over the casting, Nolan Miller's wardrobe, the Spelling/ABC publicity machine kept the series as relevant as possible for as long as possible. But by Season 6, the audience eventually realized that the series didn't really tell a story, and that same audience started to tune out, a precipitous Neilsen collapse soon followed, occurring much faster than an aging hit of DYNASTY's magnitude ever should've.

Season 9, helmed by DALLAS' David Paulsen, was great. But ABC had given up on DYNASTY, moved it to a dead-end time slot, and the audience was already gone anyway.

As Forsythe once said, the audience realizes when there is something wrong with the scripts and the story flow, and they eventually just lose interest in the project. (An add the static acting directive which commenced with Season 3, and very little could work after that).

Much of DYNASTY was excruciating to sit through at the time. Today, on DVD marathons, daily reruns, and streaming, it's not quite as tough to get through (although Season 7 is mentally ill, and far sicker than Sarah Curtis could have ever deluded herself as being). But phrases like "guilty pleasure" and "camp" were used even in the '80s to rationalize mostly abysmal storytelling, stories cobbled together by writers (and guided by Eileen) who simply weren't up to the task (yet are still credited today with making DYNASTY the dazzling hit it should have been but, in reality, only briefly was).

Yes. Slog. It died nastily. So the series title made sense.

Oh, what could have been and almost was. The Emperor's New Clothes in reverse.

 

[Willie Oleson]

Much of DYNASTY was excruciating to sit through at the time

Yes, especially the days between episodes!

But this is a weird discussion because I'm not sure if the question is "is Dynasty a guilty pleasure?" or "should Dynasty be a guilty pleasure?".
It seems that Reddit person started watching with very specific expectations and is now waiting for that to happen instead of paying attention to all the great stuff that's already there.
Once they start watching the episodes when things get seriously OTT they'll probably complain that it looks too silly. They're watching it in a way that never satisfies.

It doesn't help that "guilty pleasure" is a vague description. I'd probably use it for most of the James Cameron films.

 

[anndra w]

I enjoyed seasons 1,2,3 and 5 very much. Season 1 is slow but I think it’s well written and it’s an insight into this other world that has a different tone from the other seasons. The other seasons are good fun and entertaining - season two feels like the show is really enjoying have found its stride. Season 4 felt pretty dull to me but it picked up the madness in season 5 again. Season 6 was awful and I only got through a few episodes before giving up watching the dvds. I’ve seen bits of season 7 and 8 on Sky in the early 00s but not much. I’m not sure it was a guilty pleasure but I would say 2,3 and 5 have a touch of that. Later on, not so much. I’ve heard season 9 is better but I don’t think I can handle a new Fallon.

 

[ClassyCo]

It doesn't help that "guilty pleasure" is a vague description.

Correct. Just as "camp" and "soap opera" aren't so easily defined.

I suppose a more precise question for this thread would be: "Is DYNASTY a guilty pleasure for you? If so, then why?"

Of course, the older shows are not as fast-paced as more recent series, so that could be the problem they're seeing.

This is one common complaint I've heard from people, especially younger viewers. The older shows move so slowly, particularly the continuing story ones (like DYNASTY), and therefore get boring to some that are used to 15 episodes a season instead of 30.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

This is one common complaint I've heard from people, especially younger viewers. The older shows move so slowly, particularly the continuing story ones (like DYNASTY), and therefore get boring to some that are used to 15 episodes a season instead of 30.

Some of those younger viewers snicker that DALLAS often shows seven people getting the phone call that some character has been hit by a car, those viewers complaining, "Yeah, we get it -- she was hit by a car!" But the point isn't just to convey the event to the audience alone, but to see the reactions of the characters to that event.

Cold data and emotional subtext are different things. And both are needed.

In the case of DYNASTY, if somebody is hit by a car, nobody may ever mention it.

 

[Willie Oleson]

I suppose a more precise question for this thread would be: "Is DYNASTY a guilty pleasure for you? If so, then why?"

There are precisely two things in the Dynastyverse that I consider my guilty pleasures.
1. Rita the Krystle impostor. On paper it's pure daytime soap madness but I just love the way it plays out (except for the unceremonious conclusion)
2. The UFO cliffhanger. I understand that science fiction is unacceptable in soap opera because it's impossible to continue those storylines, let alone come up with a satisfying conclusion. And yet I can only marvel at the outrageousness of it all. And it looks good, that Dynasty Moonraker!

 

[ClassyCo]

1. Rita the Krystle impostor. On paper it's pure daytime soap madness but I just love the way it plays out (except for the unceremonious conclusion)

I was not a fan of the Rita Lesley/"Krystle look-alike" plot at all really. But I might have a different opinion were I to re-watch it.

2. The UFO cliffhanger. I understand that science fiction is unacceptable in soap opera because it's impossible to continue those storylines, let alone come up with a satisfying conclusion. And yet I can only marvel at the outrageousness of it all. And it looks good, that Dynasty Moonraker!

The scene of Fallon out in the desert is actually quite good. Outrageous? Sure. But I was mostly okay with the UFO showing up. Maybe had they gone the director John James theorized of the UFO signaling Fallon's descend into a mental breakdown, then it might've played off okay enough. I seriously doubt they would've handled it correctly, though. But, as you say, sci-fi plotlines in a soap are hard to do properly.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I was not a fan of the Rita Lesley/"Krystle look-alike" plot at all really. But I might have a different opinion were I to re-watch it.

When it originally aired once a week, it took three-and-a-half months to get through (talk about a slog!) and it helped push ratings down. It's not as hard to get through in syndication or in marathon viewing sessions, the Rita plot.

On the upside, it gives Linda Evans something to do -- an opportunity to act something and even be funny. But that's an indictment of how far DYNASTY had fallen (as well as its portrayal of its golden heroine, Krystle).

I'm not sure why its sudden wrap-up was supposedly a disappointment. How else should it have ended after ABC said: "Stop it!!" ?

The scene of Fallon out in the desert is actually quite good. Outrageous? Sure. But I was mostly okay with the UFO showing up. Maybe had they gone the director John James theorized of the UFO signaling Fallon's descend into a mental breakdown, then it might've played off okay enough. I seriously doubt they would've handled it correctly, though. But, as you say, sci-fi plotlines in a soap are hard to do properly.

Shoulda dunnit on FALCON CREST.

 

[ClassyCo]

Shoulda dunnit on FALCON CREST.

Melissa tries to shoot it.

 

[Ked]

On the upside, it gives Linda Evans something to do -- an opportunity to act something and even be funny. But that's an indictment of how far DYNASTY had fallen (as well as its portrayal of its golden heroine, Krystle).

Been rewatching old clips of "I Dream of Jeannie" and "Bewitched", both which featured their own "golden heroines" with a respective evil twin (though in "Bewitched"'s case, 'Cousin Serena' was more mischievious than she was evil). It's actually amazing watching Barbara Eden and Elizabeth Montgomery go from golden-haired sweethearts to conniving brunette vixens, showcasing just how talented and versatile each actress was.

It makes me wish DYNASTY had gone even farther with the character of Rita, having her be even more sleazy and trashy and wild, and possibly even a little insane, like she believes this really will show the world just what an incredible actress she truly is (which may or may not come across as kinda meta, seeing as how some critics were unfairly saying how Linda Evans "couldn't act her way out of a paper bag").

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

seeing as how some critics were unfairly saying how Linda Evans "couldn't act her way out of a paper bag"

But those critics were being "fair" based on what they were seeing at the time. They likely had no memory of Season 1 & 2 and her more nuanced work, nor her perfectly decent performances from the '70s.

By the mid-'80s and mid-DYNASTY, Linda was coasting on "automatic," suffocated by S.A.D., was not written for, and clearly felt "stultified" (Gordon's wording). At least Rita allowed Linda to do something else, preposterous as it was.

And, yes, maybe they should have gone even crazier with it than they did. But the audience was cratering so rapidly, an extension probably wouldn't have been accepted --- although I do want Alexis to hire another double (Joanna Cassidy?) to briefly impersonate Krystle yet again around Denver boorishly in order to cast doubt on Krystle's "likely story" about Rita! (That Alexis is such a bitch!)

Much like I want Krystle's post-limo crash headaches to morph into something more significant.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

As of Season 3, Eiileen "Mike" Pollock wanted to -- and was allowed to -- turn DYNASTY into a sequined equivalent of DRAGNET .... that's the best comparison one can make. The actors rigidly constrained to the point of stupidity, such that no scene has the remotest chance of feeling "real."

Add to that the intentionally, mostly-meandering music scores the composers were told to write, and dialogue littered with non-sequiturs, how could the pleasure of DYNASTY be either guilty or guilt-free?

The pleasure of DYNASTY was what it promised to be, pretended to be, and is remembered to have been.

The oft-mentioned "fantasy" of DYNASTY is that it ever really happened.

Too bitter? Yeah, I wish.


"I think I just had a bowel movement -- and, for some reason, it's spelling out Mike Pollock's name on the floor..... I think it's the next script."